Leftism is UGLY everywhere, it just produces misery. Look at the USA now under the Dimocrats. Look at Britain after 14 years of Leftist Tory government: massive unvetted immigration, violent crime, hopeless police, massive debts, nothing works. Nothing, absolutely nothing good achieved in 14 wasted years and even worse to come under leftist Labour.
Leftism is built on hate. Hate of other people's possessions or success, regardless of how hard those people worked to have what they've got. The lefties favourite whine is 'it's not fair', also the favourite whine of children. They weedle their way into power and start stuffing their pockets with taxpayers' money to become fully paid up Champagne Socialists like Blair and Mandelson. Once in power they find other scams to stir their daft supporters and divert attention from them gorging on taxpayers money; big projects like HS2, covid scams, miracle climate cures etc. Now we're at Defcom 5 where criticising the bastards can land you in jail - just like Cuba or Communist China. Leftism never changes.
Are Scottish people too ugly to adopt means of stimulating the economy? Are you suggesting other nations should follow Cuba's approach Dom? We don't have the sunshine here, but we do have whisky. It's a drink not too dissimilar from Rum. :) Will adopting Bitcoin remove the need to sell our bodies? Send for help. We're struggling up north. 😆😆
Dominic, I hope you do realise that when you visited Cuba in 1996 the country had been under US' blockade for well over 40 years? And they you go on to try to exemplify the dire situation in the country under a blockade as a consequence of not having free market?..
Being part of the socialist world and being integrated in that part of the world economically would have seen Cuba being much better off had there been no blockade from the US. But being cut off from the rest of the world almost entirely is not really a good example of why liberal economy is better than a socialist one.
You're making all sorts of assumptions about what I said, rather then following what I actually said.
I'll repeat it for you. I described what I saw about me ie what Cuba had become, then said:
"Cuba was probably my first lesson in the Law of Unintended Consequences. And my story illustrates many of the themes of this book: the power of the state; how the state interferes in people’s lives; how political decisions, often made out of expediency, even if benevolent, can have such grave and unexpected repercussions; why the freedom to trade and exchange is so important; and how, if you limit that freedom, you limit people’s possibilities."
I'll repeat the penultimate line for you: "why the freedom to trade and exchange is so important".
You are missing my point. You assume that Cuba would have been better off had it continued to be a capitalist liberal economy, which it used to be before Castro. But was it a prosperous rich country before Castro to start off? No, it wasn't a rich country. It was the same poor country with a lot of prostututes. Then what does your example say about Cuba and it's economy? Nothing.
As a counter-arugment, let's consider Liberia. A country in Africa which was set up as a copy-cat of the USA with the intention of it to become sort of the US of Africa. It has similar laws to the USA, but it's also a very poor country, one of the poorest in the world.
Or, look at Argentina. Transitioning from Communist to Capitalist didn't really improve the state of its economy.
Or look at China.... Dirt poor in 1947 and now has the highest GDP in the world
Also, Cuba has been US' House of the rising sun so to speak well before Fidel Castro came to power. It was running capitalist liberal economy and it still was very poor country and probably same proportion of the population were working as prostitutes. I'm sorry, but this time your argument doesn't hold the water. Just incorrect example.
Everything written by Cubans would suggest you're just regurgitating Communist misinformation about pre-Castro Cuba. It might not have been perfect but thousands of people weren't murdered, tortured and 'disappeared' for years. Comically, Fidel Castro was the biggest Communist-Capitalist Cuba ever had; he was furious when Forbes added him to the world's Rich List, with money stolen, embezzled and squeezed out of Cubans. Here's a socialist joke: 'Where's the capital of Zimbabwe? In a Swiss bank'.
Pre-Castro times in Cuba are well documented, it's no secret. Not sure what's your argument.
Also I'm confused how are supposed "thousands of people" murdered by Castro could prove or disprove Dominic's attempt to show that Liberal economy is inherently better that a Planned Socialist one.
Many regimes around the world killed many people, both, Socialist and Communist ones. It doesn't add anything to the deabate which economic model is better
Well, it's nice to see someone still raising the glorious flag of colonialism. Ah, the good old days of Empire when Britannia ruled the world...it was so much better then! Thanks for the memories.
Leftism is UGLY everywhere, it just produces misery. Look at the USA now under the Dimocrats. Look at Britain after 14 years of Leftist Tory government: massive unvetted immigration, violent crime, hopeless police, massive debts, nothing works. Nothing, absolutely nothing good achieved in 14 wasted years and even worse to come under leftist Labour.
I'm afraid so.
Agreed. As I think Churchill once said.. the equal sharing of misery.
I never understand why it remains so popular? Why do people buy into it?
I think the ideas themselves sound well intentioned. Share the wealth etc but the wealth is also shared in free market systems as history shows.
Countries with free markets in the past generally become wealthier. (Not that the left ever want you to think that.)
The left have almost ended true free markets nowadays.
I have never understood why do the followers of this want to be controlled?
And why dont they look at history to learn lessons from over control and over regulation?
Both in our country and other countries there are loads of examples?
But they are blind to it.
Amen
Leftism is built on hate. Hate of other people's possessions or success, regardless of how hard those people worked to have what they've got. The lefties favourite whine is 'it's not fair', also the favourite whine of children. They weedle their way into power and start stuffing their pockets with taxpayers' money to become fully paid up Champagne Socialists like Blair and Mandelson. Once in power they find other scams to stir their daft supporters and divert attention from them gorging on taxpayers money; big projects like HS2, covid scams, miracle climate cures etc. Now we're at Defcom 5 where criticising the bastards can land you in jail - just like Cuba or Communist China. Leftism never changes.
Absolutely correct assessment👏👏👏
A perfect summation of the current situation.
That should be taught in schools👍
Are Scottish people too ugly to adopt means of stimulating the economy? Are you suggesting other nations should follow Cuba's approach Dom? We don't have the sunshine here, but we do have whisky. It's a drink not too dissimilar from Rum. :) Will adopting Bitcoin remove the need to sell our bodies? Send for help. We're struggling up north. 😆😆
Bitcoin does fix this and, no, don't put your daughter on the stage, to quote Noel Coward!
Mrs Whittington
Eat oatmeal
Timeless advice...
Wear sunscreen - less applicable to us jocks. 😆
Cheers Dominic. A good reminder of a great book. Unintended consequences are the curse of every State.
Thanks Matthew!
I'll be going to Cuba.
When I get a rich friend I'll buy.
You'll buy Cuba?
Cuba Libre
How beautiful. I truly enjoyed reading this excerpt about Cuba.
Not too many people know this reality for the people of Cuba. Thank you!
Dominic, I hope you do realise that when you visited Cuba in 1996 the country had been under US' blockade for well over 40 years? And they you go on to try to exemplify the dire situation in the country under a blockade as a consequence of not having free market?..
of course! And why was it under a blockade?
Being part of the socialist world and being integrated in that part of the world economically would have seen Cuba being much better off had there been no blockade from the US. But being cut off from the rest of the world almost entirely is not really a good example of why liberal economy is better than a socialist one.
You're making all sorts of assumptions about what I said, rather then following what I actually said.
I'll repeat it for you. I described what I saw about me ie what Cuba had become, then said:
"Cuba was probably my first lesson in the Law of Unintended Consequences. And my story illustrates many of the themes of this book: the power of the state; how the state interferes in people’s lives; how political decisions, often made out of expediency, even if benevolent, can have such grave and unexpected repercussions; why the freedom to trade and exchange is so important; and how, if you limit that freedom, you limit people’s possibilities."
I'll repeat the penultimate line for you: "why the freedom to trade and exchange is so important".
You are missing my point. You assume that Cuba would have been better off had it continued to be a capitalist liberal economy, which it used to be before Castro. But was it a prosperous rich country before Castro to start off? No, it wasn't a rich country. It was the same poor country with a lot of prostututes. Then what does your example say about Cuba and it's economy? Nothing.
As a counter-arugment, let's consider Liberia. A country in Africa which was set up as a copy-cat of the USA with the intention of it to become sort of the US of Africa. It has similar laws to the USA, but it's also a very poor country, one of the poorest in the world.
Or, look at Argentina. Transitioning from Communist to Capitalist didn't really improve the state of its economy.
Or look at China.... Dirt poor in 1947 and now has the highest GDP in the world
It was a lot better off relative to the rest of the world before Castro
Sorry, instead of Argentina I wanted to mention Chile and Pinochet coup
Also, Cuba has been US' House of the rising sun so to speak well before Fidel Castro came to power. It was running capitalist liberal economy and it still was very poor country and probably same proportion of the population were working as prostitutes. I'm sorry, but this time your argument doesn't hold the water. Just incorrect example.
Everything written by Cubans would suggest you're just regurgitating Communist misinformation about pre-Castro Cuba. It might not have been perfect but thousands of people weren't murdered, tortured and 'disappeared' for years. Comically, Fidel Castro was the biggest Communist-Capitalist Cuba ever had; he was furious when Forbes added him to the world's Rich List, with money stolen, embezzled and squeezed out of Cubans. Here's a socialist joke: 'Where's the capital of Zimbabwe? In a Swiss bank'.
Pre-Castro times in Cuba are well documented, it's no secret. Not sure what's your argument.
Also I'm confused how are supposed "thousands of people" murdered by Castro could prove or disprove Dominic's attempt to show that Liberal economy is inherently better that a Planned Socialist one.
Many regimes around the world killed many people, both, Socialist and Communist ones. It doesn't add anything to the deabate which economic model is better
You've clearly got the lefty religion, impervious to the bleeding obvious.
I'm trying to have a debate about economic models, not about my personality and attaching labels
Well, it's nice to see someone still raising the glorious flag of colonialism. Ah, the good old days of Empire when Britannia ruled the world...it was so much better then! Thanks for the memories.
I'm not sure that story is pro-colonialism but read into it what you will