Good choice. For me it’s Dermot Morgan of Father Ted fame. However you need to be Irish to see it’s true brilliance. It deeply rooted in the culture of rural Ireland.
What?? No mention of Steve Martin? Well, exxxcuse me! I can’t look at an arrow without being reminded of his brilliance. Perhaps not the breath of a Cleese but certainly the depth.
Cleese is a genius for sure, but he came up during a golden era, in the perfect place, with plenty of help by the comedy establishment. Indeed he was a big part of the comedy establishment from quite early on, able to amplify his own rise?
Unless this was a UK competition, I would make the case for Eddie Murphy - a great standup, a legendary TV and film comic and comic actor, a successful voice actor and a man who came from nothing and subversively transcended racial boundaries, showing us that great comedy is truly universal.
His standup (Delirious), his time on SNL, acting in 48 Hours and Beverley Hills Cop. Perhaps he too has outlived his time?
Sticking with Americans, Robin Williams? I personally found his comedy a bit puerile, but he was a great actor - his performances in Good Will Hunting and Dead Poets society were very affecting. In a way, highly imaginative comedians make for some of the best straight actors - Jim Carrey has been funny in Ace Ventura, The Mask, Liar Liar and Dumb & Dumber, but his best roles were probably Eternal Sunshine and The Truman Show?
Cleese is indeed a legend among men. Superb choice. Someone I rate massively as a writer, comic, actor.. is Rick Gervais. In my opinion e.g Afterlife is an emotional whirlwind. One minute, hysterical laughter then heart rending sadness. The Office is one of few examples of comedy that crosses the pond without loss of comedic value..
It's difficult, greatest comedian? Most have their gags written for them don't they, so it's a matter of technique. Bob Monkhouse was incredible in that he had thousands of gags memorised, I guess many he'd "borrowed" as most comics do. Eric Morecombe was probably the best performer I've ever seen, universally loved and got more laughs from just looks and his acting than anyone on British tv. If anyone doesn't know him watch the Andre Previn sketch, it's a classic.
If you're going for all round writer and performer Spike Milligan has to be in there because, I think, everything that came after him was a child of the Goon Show. Then he went on to make the "Q" series on tv, which is hit and miss, but brilliant in that the BBC allowed him to do what he liked.
Sellers, as you say was also a star in the Goon Show and as Clouseau.
I would go with Rowan Atkinson - Not the Nine o'clock news was brilliant satire/sketch show that has been buried for some reason, a live stage show which is well worth seeing "Live in Belfast" I think the album was called (the wedding speeches being a personal favourite), 4 series of Blackadder a classic sitcom where he outshone the likes of Fry, Laurie, Miranda Richardson and Blessed, Mr Bean the best physical comedy since Chaplin, plus a lot of film work. Add to that he's a brilliant man who has spoken out for free speech at a time that was dangerous to his career. I can't see how Cleese matches that because his one-man live shows just aren't very good.
Good analysis. You could have added "A Fish Called Wanda" as a further example of Cleese's brilliance in an entirely different genre. Glad you won the debate.
I think any comedian worth their salt would deny being "the greatest" at anything (specifically, comedy). So there's no "greatest", there's just good ones that make you laugh/think (and maybe cry).
It's the same as taking a "best comedy award" - how can you objectively judge "best" in a frame of "comedy"? Who's doing the scoring? What's the frame of reference? Video Views/Streams/Sales? Amount of laughs? Amount of press headline "controversy" because the comedian is so "edgy" and ruffled too many feathers?
Obviously, the best comedian is, has been and ever will be, objectively: Funnybot. You can google or even ask "ChatGPT" about it.
I appreciate the debate is not an ultima ratio - and I do agree with the general take-away of Cleese being a brilliant comedic actor (in his heydays!).
This bit here still always makes me laugh tears (maybe you have to be a certain age to enjoy... not sure of GenZ or young'uns wouldn't think it "cringe" since it's not filmed in portrait/for tiktok):
I am more worried no-one took the "edgy" (or absurd) baton and that new-age comedians (and comedy) seem to want to be liked by more people and hence will never develop a "give your car a good thrashing" moment. It's unbelievable almost 50 years for this piece of comedy, if you can believe it. Someone should take that branch and give their damn Tesla (and X, the website) a good thrashing for being owned by Elon.
Good choice in Cleese. I cannot disagree.
But are you saying clowns, albeit possibly high-browed ones, have not & do not come out of Cambridge? Ha ha - good one!
Alienators Keynes & Friedman & Malthus alone flash the line from Aliens: "I say we take off & nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
You are absolutely right!
Cleese is a one off and deserves the highest praise.
Someone who can make you laugh so much is heaven sent.
If only there were more John Cleese’s in the world 😩
Indeed
Good choice. For me it’s Dermot Morgan of Father Ted fame. However you need to be Irish to see it’s true brilliance. It deeply rooted in the culture of rural Ireland.
I don't think he was a writer though which precludes him great though his performance was
Life of Brian is an accurate satire of the world we live in today.
All the ingredients are there. We have blind followers and tribal believers who will bluntly refuse any other possible explanations of events.
Such people want you punished for words.. Aaaagh... He said Jehovah!!
Not just punished, they want you finished.
That film has more relevance today about the absurdity of human behaviour than it did back then
Yes, indeed.
What?? No mention of Steve Martin? Well, exxxcuse me! I can’t look at an arrow without being reminded of his brilliance. Perhaps not the breath of a Cleese but certainly the depth.
Yes, some great moments. The Jerk has one of the great moments when they sing Tonight You Belong To Me
Cleese is a genius for sure, but he came up during a golden era, in the perfect place, with plenty of help by the comedy establishment. Indeed he was a big part of the comedy establishment from quite early on, able to amplify his own rise?
Unless this was a UK competition, I would make the case for Eddie Murphy - a great standup, a legendary TV and film comic and comic actor, a successful voice actor and a man who came from nothing and subversively transcended racial boundaries, showing us that great comedy is truly universal.
His standup (Delirious), his time on SNL, acting in 48 Hours and Beverley Hills Cop. Perhaps he too has outlived his time?
Sticking with Americans, Robin Williams? I personally found his comedy a bit puerile, but he was a great actor - his performances in Good Will Hunting and Dead Poets society were very affecting. In a way, highly imaginative comedians make for some of the best straight actors - Jim Carrey has been funny in Ace Ventura, The Mask, Liar Liar and Dumb & Dumber, but his best roles were probably Eternal Sunshine and The Truman Show?
Eddie Murphy what a performer yes. Agree about Jim carrey too
Cleese is indeed a legend among men. Superb choice. Someone I rate massively as a writer, comic, actor.. is Rick Gervais. In my opinion e.g Afterlife is an emotional whirlwind. One minute, hysterical laughter then heart rending sadness. The Office is one of few examples of comedy that crosses the pond without loss of comedic value..
yes he's good!
It's difficult, greatest comedian? Most have their gags written for them don't they, so it's a matter of technique. Bob Monkhouse was incredible in that he had thousands of gags memorised, I guess many he'd "borrowed" as most comics do. Eric Morecombe was probably the best performer I've ever seen, universally loved and got more laughs from just looks and his acting than anyone on British tv. If anyone doesn't know him watch the Andre Previn sketch, it's a classic.
If you're going for all round writer and performer Spike Milligan has to be in there because, I think, everything that came after him was a child of the Goon Show. Then he went on to make the "Q" series on tv, which is hit and miss, but brilliant in that the BBC allowed him to do what he liked.
Sellers, as you say was also a star in the Goon Show and as Clouseau.
I would go with Rowan Atkinson - Not the Nine o'clock news was brilliant satire/sketch show that has been buried for some reason, a live stage show which is well worth seeing "Live in Belfast" I think the album was called (the wedding speeches being a personal favourite), 4 series of Blackadder a classic sitcom where he outshone the likes of Fry, Laurie, Miranda Richardson and Blessed, Mr Bean the best physical comedy since Chaplin, plus a lot of film work. Add to that he's a brilliant man who has spoken out for free speech at a time that was dangerous to his career. I can't see how Cleese matches that because his one-man live shows just aren't very good.
He came second!
You omitted Rowan Atkinson in your list of rivals.
Oh, he came up in the debate at great length.
Good analysis. You could have added "A Fish Called Wanda" as a further example of Cleese's brilliance in an entirely different genre. Glad you won the debate.
Clockwise
Yes, I forgot that!
I think any comedian worth their salt would deny being "the greatest" at anything (specifically, comedy). So there's no "greatest", there's just good ones that make you laugh/think (and maybe cry).
It's the same as taking a "best comedy award" - how can you objectively judge "best" in a frame of "comedy"? Who's doing the scoring? What's the frame of reference? Video Views/Streams/Sales? Amount of laughs? Amount of press headline "controversy" because the comedian is so "edgy" and ruffled too many feathers?
Obviously, the best comedian is, has been and ever will be, objectively: Funnybot. You can google or even ask "ChatGPT" about it.
Yes, but it's a debate so we all love having these conversations ...
I appreciate the debate is not an ultima ratio - and I do agree with the general take-away of Cleese being a brilliant comedic actor (in his heydays!).
This bit here still always makes me laugh tears (maybe you have to be a certain age to enjoy... not sure of GenZ or young'uns wouldn't think it "cringe" since it's not filmed in portrait/for tiktok):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhzckCB3Bo8
I am more worried no-one took the "edgy" (or absurd) baton and that new-age comedians (and comedy) seem to want to be liked by more people and hence will never develop a "give your car a good thrashing" moment. It's unbelievable almost 50 years for this piece of comedy, if you can believe it. Someone should take that branch and give their damn Tesla (and X, the website) a good thrashing for being owned by Elon.
Taught him everything I know and he put it to work 👍👀😂